【科技】丰田氢动力汽车梦想破灭 - 车主起诉丰田_风闻

【来源龙腾网】

Mirai在日语中是“未来”的意思。当丰田公司豪赌氢能是未来汽车的发展方向时，将其首款氢燃料电池电动汽车命名为丰田Mirai似乎是对这一宏伟目标的最好诠释。

然而，事与愿违。正如早期用户发现的那样，Mirai并不是许多人希望的理想未来。事实上，基础设施的崩溃和折旧让一些车主要求丰田回购，甚至对他们的经历提起诉讼。

如今，他们中的许多人都很愤怒，觉得自己被欺骗了，因为他们觉得自己买了一辆潜力巨大的汽车，但却没有得到必要的燃料基础设施的支持。

评论原创翻译：

@RudiJock

I have an acquaintance in Toronto (Canada) who owns a used vehicle dealership. He bought a practically new hydrogen car on auction for $12K(CAD) having no clue about hydrogen other than he hit was the future. He drove it for a couple of days and decided to get it refulled. SHOCK! The closest station was in California. He in turn sold it to a Californian for $6K(CAD). Lesson learned.

我在多伦多有个开二手车行的朋友。他在拍卖会上花1.2万加元买了辆几乎全新的氢能源汽车。他对氢能源一无所知，就觉得这是未来。开了没几天他想加氢。结果懵了！最近的加氢站居然在加利福尼亚。他只好亏本卖给了一个加州人，才卖了6000加元。呵呵，长记性了。

原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处

@990Hyper

Pure genius

绝对是个天才。

@billbell3737

I did an analysis about 12 years ago on hydrogen powered cars. I determined even if hydrogen could be created for free it was still not economical. The cost of storing, transporting and dispensing it made it cost prohibitive compared to electricity.

大概12年前我分析过氢能源汽车。结论是即使氢气能零成本生产，也完全不划算。光是储存、运输和加注的成本，就比用电贵得多了。

@simonreeves2017

Hi Sam, I’m nearly 60YO, the speculation about hydrogen as a fuel has been running my whole life, along with nuclear fusion energy. Neither has come to anything in 60 years. Both have such fundamental problems that are extremely difficult to solve because they are rooted in the laws of physics. Hydrogen is the smallest element in the universe and is highly reactive, this makes it extremely difficult to contain in a fuel tank, and all the hydrogen on Earth exists in compounds formed with other elements. To use it requires a chemical reaction to release free hydrogen. Unless someone can reinvent the physics of our universe, hydrogen will remain an extremely difficult and expensive fuel source.

嗨，山姆，我快60岁了，关于氢燃料的憧憬贯穿了我的一生，跟核聚变一样。这60年来，两个技术都没啥进展。它们都存在根本性的问题，因为这些问题源于物理定律，极难解决。

氢是宇宙中最小的元素，而且很活泼，这让它在燃料箱里特别难存储。地球上的氢都是以化合物形式存在的。要用它就得靠化学反应释放出游离氢。

除非有人能重写宇宙物理定律，否则氢永远都是个极其难搞而且昂贵的燃料来源。

@gohumberto

ANYONE who knows anything about logistics, energy, and energy supply knew this was crazy idea …. except at Toyota apparently. They need to fire their chief engineer.

- Producing Hydrogen uses a lot of electricity and is inefficient (so why not just put electricity straight into cars?)

- Using Hydrogen fuel cells basically converts it back to electricity inefficiently (so why not just use electric batteries?)

- Transporting vast quantities of liquid hydrogen daily by road is hugely dangerous and relies on (presumably) millions of diesel-powered trucks.

- Storing Hydrogen is difficult. It’s very “leaky” and required the installation of a high-pressure storage facility at every “gas station”.

- There’s zero option for home charging, so your life involves constant pumping of compressed hydrogen at some cold dirty gas-station.

- Drivers now have to pump highly compressed liquid hydrogen into a big metal tank, right behind their children’s" seats (You’re scared of EV fires? Wait until you see a Hydrogen fire).

- Who wants to live close to a Hydrogen pumping station? (Because you’ll almost certainly have gasoline on site as well ….. Now you just created a bomb site).

It’s so impractical at virtually EVERY stage, that it’s clearly a non-starter for most applications. Maybe it’s OK for big Truck depots, where you can store vast quantities on-site, for your fleet, but to distribute liquid hydrogen to every gas-station in the World is just never going to happen, it can’t happen, it isn’t happening (don’t believe me? go find your local Hydrogen filling point).

- - The sheer beauty of EVs is simplicity. “The best part is no part” and the EV process has very few parts.

In the best case the Sun sends you electricity and you distribute it instantly with cables. It goes directly into EV batteries and turns an electric motor (fundamentally one moving part). You just removed thousands of moving parts and complex engineering logistics from the process.

但凡懂点物流和能源常识的人都知道这主意有多荒唐……看来丰田内部是没这号人。他们该开除总工程师了。

- 制氢耗电又低效（那干嘛不直接用电动车？）

- 氢燃料电池把氢转化成电也很低效（那还不如直接用电池呢）

- 每天用卡车运输大量液态氢太危险了，还得靠（估计）上百万辆柴油卡车。

- 储存氢气很麻烦。它特别容易泄漏，每个加油站都得装高压储存设备。

- 完全不能在家充能，你得老往又冷又脏的加气站跑。

- 司机得往孩子座椅后面的大金属罐里充高压液态氢（你要是觉得电动车起火吓人，等着看氢气着火吧）。

- 谁愿意住在氢气加注站附近啊？（因为那儿肯定还存着汽油……这不就成炸弹库了吗）。

这玩意儿每个环节都不实用，根本就是个死胡同。

也许对大型卡车车队还行，你可以在基地存大量氢气自用。但想在全球每个加油站都配氢气？做梦去吧，不可能的，也没人这么干（不信？你去找找最近的加氢站在哪）。

- 电动车最美的地方就是简单。零件越少越好，电动车的工作原理很简单。

理想情况下，阳光产生的电直接通过电缆输送。电能直接进入电池，驱动电机（基本上就一个运动部件）。这下省掉了上千个运动部件和复杂的工程物流。

@antonio_fosnjar

Biggest car company in the world thought it had enough power and money to influence the whole market

全球最大的车企以为有钱有势就能左右整个市场。

@bertho6701

Sounds like the Japanese thinking back in the 80’s. Remember Sony memory stick?

这不就是80年代日本人的思维吗？还记得索尼记忆棒不？

原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处

@andrewlim7751

One thing common about Chinese and Japanese, they both wanna control the market, the winner takes all mindset.

中国人和日本人有个共同点，都想垄断市场，都有赢家通吃的心态。

@不死鳥-u4e

Toyota is rich, so they don’t care if it takes 50 years for hydrogen to be put to practical use. Toyota Research & Development Laboratory, Inc., the basic research institute of the Toyota Group, is conducting research on “artificial photosynthesis” and extracting hydrogen from “formic acid.”

丰田有钱，所以他们不在乎氢能源要五十年才能实用化。丰田集团的基础研究机构——丰田研究所正在研究“人工光合成”和从“甲酸”中提取氢气。

@adamesd3699

I remember being told that Hydrogen cars are the future twenty years ago. This was expected to happen by 2040. But in the meantime the EV revolution happened.

我记得二十年前就有人说氢能源汽车是未来。说到2040年就能实现。结果没等到氢能源，电动革命先来了。

原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处

@keithng5249

The 134 buyers of Toyota’s hydrogen cars are probably employees or substantial shareholders of the company

买丰田氢能源车的那134个人，八成都是公司员工或大股东。

@JIMMY-nz1ld

If Toyota is so believed hydrogen cars they should get their sales in Japan up first than global market.

丰田要是真信氢能源车，应该先在日本本土搞起来，再考虑全球市场。

@glenthegoalsguy

Hydrogen leaks more easily than any other gas.

氢气比任何气体都容易泄漏。

@nerdbikes3841

The entire point of an EV to me was freeing myself from the chains of the gas station business model. With gasoline vehicles you must go 100% of the time to oil industry crack dealer. With EVs, I can charge from my solar panels at home, from the grid at home, from hotel slow chargers, or from Superchargers. It’s no contest. I;m free.

对我来说，电动车最棒的就是摆脱了加油站那套。

开汽油车就得百分百依赖石油公司那帮贩子。开电动车，我可以用家里的太阳能板充电，用市电充电，用酒店的慢充，或者用超级充电桩。这完全没得比。我自由了。

@vinniechan

Japan betted on hydrogen early

Problem with storing energy as hydrogen is converting hydrogen is very inefficient

日本早早就押注氢能源了

问题是用氢气储能效率太低了。

@jwstolk

Hydrogen was a good bet, even with the inefficiency, when battery technology was not sufficient to build a BEV with reasonable range for a reasonable price. The problem was continuing to bet on it when battery technology improved. Hydrogen could still be a viable option for large planes and ships, but battery technology can now handle any road transport.

在电池技术还不足以造出续航合理、价格合理的纯电动车时，押注氢能源是个不错的选择，即便效率低。

问题是当电池技术进步后还死咬着不放。氢能源可能仍然合大型飞机和轮船，但电池技术现在已经能满足所有陆路交通需求了。

@KanedaSyndrome

Especially if the point of hydrogen is to make it into electricity, then why not just store it as electricity to begin with and skip a volatile step (hydrogen)

特别是如果氢动力的目的是为了发电，那为什么不直接用来发电，跳过这个不稳定的环节（氢）呢。

原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处

@AndyM…

Yeah Nah, the ability to EASILY generate your own fuel (often for free) for a normal EV, trumps having to go to somewhere else to get it. Hydrogen won’t survive !

得了吧，能轻松自己发电（而且常常是免费的）供普通电动车用，这点就完胜还得跑去加氢。氢能源撑不下去了！

@Jaw0lf

They got it majorly wrong. The cost of hydrogen stations are crazy there were very few of them and then you pay a lot more for hydrogen. All of which the EV solves.On top of that EV’s are selling massively now and are increasing every month.

丰田这次完全搞错了。氢气加气站的成本太高了，还特别少。而且加氢的费用也贵得要命。这些问题电动车都解决了。更别说现在电动车的销量在疯狂增长，每个月都在上涨。

@philflip1963

Just What were Toyota up to?

I find it incredible to believe that they actually believed that Hydrogen was a viable technology!

丰田到底在想什么啊？

真是难以置信他们居然会认为氢能源是个可行的技术！